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Changing Tribes: Vengeance

It would seem to me that there has been a rather impressive resurgence in the Tribes: Vengeance community. Whether this means that more players are actively playing or players are just getting more involved, I simply do no know. Either way, I’m glad to see some interesting discussion resulting from it. With that said, a lot of this discussion has focused on compmod and the various changes it implements. As to be expected, vanilla has been thrown into the mix, with various discussions on weapons, physics, vehicles, and other fine details. A number of individuals have asked for my input on these matters, so I’d like to address these issues now.

As it stands, I actually think that Tribes: Vengeance is a relatively well put together game. There are some balance issues, granted, but nothing that requires a large quantity of changes. The whole intent with vanilla was to address a couple key issues, in a relatively simple or plain way. This is how vanilla obtained its name.

In my opinion, there existed a triad of issues, namely the shield pack, grappler, and vehicles. Did vanilla address these in the best manner possible? Of course not, but the changes were somewhat minimal, and easy to implement. It was a quick fix that did the job. Could it have used some refinement? I’m sure, but in all honesty, it wasn’t an issue I was concerned with. Sometimes balance involves making a decision and sticking with it.

Knowing this, there have been a number of mods with the intent to balance gameplay. I can’t help but feel the number one reason why none of these caught on was directly related to the fact that they bit off more than they could chew. How can you balance a game when you introduce a significant number of changes to nearly all aspects of the game? Balancing has to start extremely small and build in a systematic manner.

Furthermore, how can you balance a game (and why would you want to try), when very few people can actually agree on what balance is? Usually, balance is not obtained by listening to a community because the sample is too small, too large, or the balance shifts towards those that scream the loudest (which is not always indicative of majority). Most individuals are not concerned with honest balance, but rather, what suits their roles. Rarely will you find a heavy that doesn’t favor more resilience, a capper more grapples, and a chaser a weaker shield pack. With so much input and so many changes, how could such a mod ever be balanced?

I have no desire to work on such a thing. In regards to vanilla, it is what it is. I have no intentions of changing it, combining it, or pursuing a similar project further. I’m generally a busy person, and the last thing I want to do is spend my free time tweaking values and listening to people *** and moan. It’s not for me; I’d much rather work on some creative content.

Additionally, I feel inclined to say that I don’t think any significant changes this late in the game will contribute to the growth of a community. In particular, I have always felt changing physics would be a mistake. Moving from server to server having to adjust how you shoot, fly, or ski should never be an issue. It creates inconsistency, is confusing to players, and diminishes their ability to improve. For those that were asking me, I will not be changing any physics for any custom gametype. All new gametypes will function as stock Tribes: Vengeance. It will merely be the governing rules of play that change. By following this principle, stock players will be happy, and those desiring changes can run the gametype with a custom mutator.

So, in short, I have no intentions of making any changes to my gametype weapons, physics, vehicles, etc. I have no desire to pursue vanilla or any competition/balancing further. But, this is not to say I am totally against it. If someone wants to take a stab at it, more power to them. In fact, this may help. ;)

So, I guess the question remains; what am I still working on? Well, of course, I’ll continue to work on antics. In addition, I’ll be releasing a number of new gametypes, bug fixes, and a couple new surprises here and there. I’m excited, and you should be to!

-Chase "rapher" Sensky

posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 11:57 AM by rapher

# re: Changing Tribes: Vengeance @ Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:00 PM

I felt this sentiment all along. Tbh i found a lot of your mod work relatively futile from the game community perspective. Not to say your efforts aren't appreciated, as obviously they are, and you are awarded the highest of respect. I'm sure all the experience gathered has given you outstanding insight & experience in the dev world in which I trust you are making a real living!

Having said all that, auMod does address some of the minor annoyances of the retail release, along with some fun extras (such as the badass shock-knife from UCMod, Pod missile 'overheat', degrapple, and of course antics). There are certain item changes pretty much everyone can agree on, even purists like myself.

But why shouldn't mods go the real distance and create entirely new scenarios, worlds, game concepts. This is where mods can be truly exciting and attractive to new players who may have missed out on the first few waves of a game and not want to play catchup.

Using the tribes world and gameplay (flying / skiing) as a starting point, you could look at setting tribesplay in new realm eg) a fantasy realm with winged serpents v elves v valkyrie sorta thing.

Or u could take the Ball mod and turn it into a fully fledged game (which was something i tried to do but couldn't pull a team).

Check out what killa & ice are doing over at vT. They've taken superhot lamborghini diablo's and jetbikes and put them on an amazing track, all using t:v. Can't wait to give that a spin in the next week or so.

The reality is tho, T:V had so many flaws & incomplete features to start with, that trying to go that much further at this stage, still means going backwards first. And given the imminent release of UT2K7 I think mod eyes should be looking to the future, which means working with the new engine.

Shar*Chi

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