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Started by dEhaV at 04-03-2006 8:21 PM. Topic has 2 replies.

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   04-03-2006, 8:21 PM
dEhaV is not online. Last active: 11/14/2007 3:17:31 PM dEhaV

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Joined on 04-01-2006
Posts 37
LT and duds
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Hi,

In the last week we've set up an LT server here in AUS. Players are experiencing a noticably high increase in the number of MA duds than on our Base CTF server which runs on the same host.

Is this something that is generally experienced in LT? Any ideas on how this could be improved via a server ini config change?

Thanks
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   04-17-2006, 11:24 AM
WonderuseTim is not online. Last active: 6/28/2006 2:21:27 PM WonderuseTim

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Re: LT and duds
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Number one issue I have with Tribes Vengeance...Nonregs. I have heard that nonregs are just extrememly close misses, and even seen video "proof". But im not convinced. They seem to happen mostly on lights, as I have never had one on a heavy. I beleive that they just happen more often in LT because everyone is in light, and generally the shots are harder. I dunno, just an observation. Also, anyone have a real definitive answer as to what a nonreg is? Im sticking with just that, a non registrered shot, until I find out otherwise.

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   04-17-2006, 1:02 PM
rapher is not online. Last active: 3/25/2010 10:48:57 PM rapher

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Joined on 03-31-2006
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Re: LT and duds
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Dehav,

First, let me apologize for the delay. I wanted to formulate a more “official” response to this post as I feel this is a major area of concern for a number of players. However, with the urgency of the day to day, this response was pushed aside for some time. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I’d like to address Tim’s questions first. Truth of the matter is that a non-reg is just that – a nonregistered shot. In the Unreal Engine, the server is authoritative for all hits and misses; however, it is important to note that animations and some collision detection are done client side. This means that in Tribes: Vengeance, when a client clicks fire, a disc for example, is shot from the gun and projects towards an enemy. This information is replicated on the server, but typically as an initial event. As the disc approaches an enemy on the client, if the client’s enemy is in the path of this disc, the disc explosion animation will trigger. The client then sees a mid air “hit.” However, the client and server are not always perfectly in sync. The server will update the client with player locations and projectile information, but this information may sometimes be inaccurate due to network conditions, lost packets, or any numerous conditions that would prevent synchronization between the two. So, in the meantime, the server processes the projectile information and enemy location, but those two never cross collision paths (at least, according to the server).  Because the server is authoritative, it never reports a hit to the client. This discrepancy is the cause of non-regs.

Now, I can’t say that I have any numbers or actual data to back up these claims, but I think Tim has a valid argument as to why non-regs seem higher in LT. The smaller hit boxes and higher speeds would certainly contribute to more client/server disagreements. However, I find it most interesting that your players seem to notice this after the installation of LT. There is a concept known as the “placebo effect,” in which the introduction of something new causes users to believe that an unrelated item has changed. I’m not saying this is the case, but I do think it is a possibility. After all, I’ve had a number of American players say they love LT because there are less non-regs. It may just be your perception.

Yet, I still may be able to help you out. Knowing that non-regs are a client/server issue, one way to reduce these discrepancies is to increase your MaxClientRate and NetServerMaxTickRate. Granted, this will consume more bandwidth, but that is the whole idea. Send more information at a faster rate, and as long as both the server and client can handle it, reduce the number of client/server discrepancies.

But beyond this, is there an honest solution to non-regs? No, not really. As a scripter, the code may be optimized to increase data exchange rate and size, and even more calculations may be processed server side and sent to the client, but these all have overhead costs. Server processing power and bandwidth become even more of an issue. Admittedly, I do think T:V could use a vast number of improvements in this regard, but it would require some fundamental changes which would be highly  time consuming and require a great deal of effort. Knowing this, it is also vital to note that the core networking code is native to the engine. Simple mods and scripts will have no effect on the underlying technology. Can you solve the problem entirely? No, but you can improve it. Is it worth the time? I personally doubt it, though I would be interested to see what others think. As much as I hate them myself, the fact of the matter is that is bound to happen. It happens both ways, in your favor, and not. The interesting thing to note is that people never complain when the server registers a hit not understood by the client.

This is all very vague, so if anyone desires more specifics, I will be happy to elaborate. In appreciation of time and length I will leave it at this unless requested. I hope this was of some help.


-rapher
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