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11-14-2006, 7:09 PM Shar*Chi Joined on 04-01-2006 Sydney, Australia Posts 37 Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine I wanna kickstart discussion here about creating a tribeslike mod/s for UT3. What I'd personally like to see is * CTF gametype * Ball-esque extreme sports mod * Titan-esque mod (from 2142 where the motherships are moving and rather than CTF you have to destroy them.) What is the opinion of Rapher & others about such a project? Does the engine respresent a big enough shift to warrant the undertaking? How hard would it be to code / script, what sort of team should be assembled, etc? What impact would it have on bringing in new people to the tribes community? Shar*Chi |vT|    Report

11-15-2006, 2:05 PM rapher Joined on 03-31-2006 Posts 159 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine First and foremost, you are not the only one curious about this possibility. Personally, the more time I spend with the Unreal Engine, the more partial I get towards it. I love it.  With that said, I have every intention of doing one, if not multiple UE3 mods. I have a number of ideas brewing, some Tribes related, some not. I’ve already toyed with some fundamental UE3 code and am very happy with what I have seen so far. I think the potential is there, and eagerly wait in anticipation for the full UT2007 source. I’d imagine once I get my hands on that, the sky is the limit. Unfortunately, we won’t likely see UT2007 until mid 2007. =(  But, more specifically, in regards to a Tribes related project, I’m all for it. However, right off the top of my head, I feel there is a huge barrier to entry with such an idea because of T:V’s flop. That is, because T:V was an Unreal Engine based game, many people will automatically disregard any Tribes related project on future Unreal Engines. This may or may not be advantageous. On the one hand, it may be hard to capture a new audience. On the other hand, those that would oppose such a transition are typically not an audience worth considering. But that is another topic.  And certainly, the new engine does warrant the shift. From what I have seen thus far, transitioning for previous UE modders will be a snap, but because some of the fundamental Tribes-esque elements will be lacking, there may be a heavy initial development curve. On such a project, I would like to see (at least) a coder, a mapped, a modeler, and an artist. I think a highly cohesive team with specialized skill sets could easily pump out something playable. Of course, the more competent people the better.  I’m not saying such a project would be successful, but I do think it would be fun to do. The biggest problem with making a Tribes like game is that Tribes players are so passionate. Tribes players love their game, and each has a different reason as to why. It seems as though no two players share the same opinion about what makes Tribes good/bad, and most are far too vocal. I feel that if a Tribes mod was created using UE3, the traditional Tribes players would download and install just to take a peak. The majority would probably *** that it is not T1/T2 with better graphics, but you would be able to get a few to stay. The real potential is that UT’s community is huge, and if you provide a quality mod that is free, there is all sorts of potential for new players. -rapher    Report

11-15-2006, 8:42 PM John the Jammer Joined on 04-01-2006 Fla Posts 79 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine wait what about TR and the TV t2 mod? The on that blitz posted on TW about the t2 mod was that dropped?    Report

11-15-2006, 10:25 PM rapher Joined on 03-31-2006 Posts 159 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine I've rewritten much of TR. I'm still working on it, so no worries. As I mentioned above, I have full intentions of moving to the UE3, but that is not for another nine months or so. Until that time, I will continue my work with T:V in the Vengeance Engine. On that note, I had mentioned the possibility of a "classic" mod. By classic, I meant more traditional Tribes, particulary as in Tribes 1. I saw that post on TW, and felt it was taken out of context. I'm not sure if I'll move forward with a classic style mod at all. I'll post an update on what I am working on sometime soon. -rapher    Report

11-17-2006, 4:47 AM Shar*Chi Joined on 04-01-2006 Sydney, Australia Posts 37 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine My opinion would be the best opportunities lay in developing completely new IP based on tribeslike gameplay. The Pro's: Less pressure from the traditional tribes fanbase as to what the game should be hence a more favourable attitude to the project as you are doing something new. Greater opportunity to capture a wider FPS market, as the Tribes franchise alone is fairly redundant from a marketing point of view. Freedom to introduce exciting new concepts to the genre. No legal obligations to VUG who own the Tribes franchise. Opportunity to develop a new franchise with wider properties. The Cons: More development work for concept, artwork, backstory, branding. Plenty of tribers will pooh-pooh it. Perhaps one could approach VUG and pitch another sequel for the franchise The choice of engines would be between UE3 or Garage Games TSE. Here's some basic pros & cons for each: TSE: Built for tribeslike gameplay Supposedly able to handle games of upto 256 players online, but more stable on 64 - 128 Indie licence costs like $100! Commercial Licence costs under $1k Supposed to ship with Legions starter FPS, but that seems to have evaporated. Plenty of folks in the tribes community already have Torque scripting experience Very realistic outdoor environments. Reasonably nice interiors. UE3 Adapted to tribeslike gameplay Supposed to be more efficient with network issues Seamless map changes Supposed to support around 64 players online Vastly more popular engine, would potentially tap into a very large community Extremely expensive licence More cartoony look & feel than TSE Outstanding interiors & characters Improved vehicle capabilities T:V can be used as a proto-type for development purposes Thoughts? Shar*Chi |vT|    Report

11-18-2006, 10:06 AM rapher Joined on 03-31-2006 Posts 159 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine Yes, I completely agree; a new IP would be the best solution. However, I’m not so sure this will ease any type of pressure from the current Tribes community. The moment you mention a “Tribes like” game, every previous T1 and T2 player will want their say. Still, creating a new IP does provide a chance to spark new interest, and certainly avoids and legal obligations. It seems like the safest bet. Granted, many Tribes players will “pooh pooh” it, but I think that is to be expected. Anytime you have a community that is so passionate about a game, you are bound to make some people unhappy, even if you did remake T1/T2 with better graphics. As for development time, I’m not sure a new IP increases this work load. Concept art may not be required (if based on previous art styles), even with a name change. Just because a game is named differently, that does not mean it requires a complete visual overhaul. Conversely, even if a game followed the Tribes suite, it does not mean it has to follow the same visual styling. Again, back-story is not a concern because the Tribe universe is so vast. Furthermore, I envision I primarily multiplayer game, so story is not the greatest concern. If anything, I do feel branding is an issue. I’d lump branding under the general strategic marketing category which is required of any mod, so I’m not going to consider it a barrier to entry. In regards to the TSE, I agree, it may be more suitable for Tribes like gameplay. I’m interested to see how the UE3 handles larger environments and greater player counts. I’m sure it will be an improvement over prior iterations, so I wouldn’t disregard that just yet. Still, the TSE is cheap, but this is only a concern if the mod went commercial. Odds of this are always very slim. All the tools for UE3 are provided with most UE3 games (~$60), so cost is not an issue. I know a number of Tribes players have TSE experience, and that is largely in part because there are a couple TGE and TSE Tribes like projects already. Because of this, have little desire to work with TSE or TGE. There is no point in competing for the same goal. In this scenario, it would likely benefit everyone if we just teamed up. Besides, I’m not looking for a large talent pool, as I would prefer a much smaller cohesive team. Too many cooks in the kitchen, I’m afraid. The great thing about the UE3 is that it can be adapted for most anything. Art direction is really at the discretion of the project, so I think even a more “realistic” style could be obtained. Primarily, the greatest benefits to the UE3 are that it carries such a huge community. It is clearly becoming a standard for both PC and next generation consoles, and I think will have the most impact on the industry as a whole. Projects that spawn from the engine will likely have greater technical and community support, and provide participants of the project with the most practical experience. The potential, in my opinion, is far greater, and far more exciting. Obviously, I’m kind of partial. -rapher    Report

11-24-2006, 2:02 AM StanRex Joined on 04-04-2006 Posts 14 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine I've thought about this as well. A game which would hold similarities to Tribes gameplay (mainly armors, going high speed, jetpacks and skiing (those last two, probably not the way we know them), but probably grapplers as well and many, many, many different things), but wouldnt be Tribes. And frak those T:W guys who want T1 with better graphics ^^ Have some concept ideas written on paper, will try to put them online soon, on a webby. However, I was more thinking about the crysis engine than the ue3, mainly because crytek seems to like huge open space (if you played far cry you know what I mean) and I was thinking that this kind of engine would be more adequate for having people going at high speeds. I have to agree that the UE3 strength is its playerbase, far cry didnt really have a great multiplayer success compared to ut, ut2k3-4.    Report

11-24-2006, 12:02 PM rapher Joined on 03-31-2006 Posts 159 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine Yeah, the Crysis Engine may be adequate, although I have no experience with the previous engine. If we are just throwing ideas around, it may not be a bad idea to take a look at the modified D3 Engine used for Quake Wars. The environments appear to be equally as large, and there already appears to be some form of skiing and jetpacking. Just a thought. -rapher    Report

12-14-2006, 3:14 AM StanRex Joined on 04-04-2006 Posts 14 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine Indeed. The ET:QW engine is an option The one thing I m looking forward to in the Crysis engine is the fact that it seems the environment can be destroyed by the fighting.    Report

12-14-2006, 7:00 AM rapher Joined on 03-31-2006 Posts 159 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine You know, this may actually be accomplished in many games. Even T:V you could create a psuedo-terrain (perhaps terrain on terrain) with dynamic vertices. That is, when the psuedo terrain takes damage or impact, the location of the vertices shift. My biggest complaint with this is that for a game like Tribes, I do not feel it is condusive to gameplay. I think it would likely be too detrimental to offensive players as well as cappers. Terrain/environments would rarely be the same and I personally think this would slow the game as a whole. Just my two cents. -rapher    Report

12-15-2006, 2:09 AM StanRex Joined on 04-04-2006 Posts 14 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine I think I said it the wrong way. Terrain isnt destructed in Crysis I think. However, a lot of the environment is (trees mostly in the vids) While this can certainly be done on other engines, having it already done in the retail game makes it easier to mod. Probably just like jetpack and skiing in ET:QW :) and I agree that destructible terrain would make it harder for cappers to keep a high speed in a tribes gameplay. However, at the moment, I have yet to define how close to Tribes the gameplay of my little idea has to be. I feel Tribes gameplay had its flaws too (both T:V and T2) and ofc, I d like to only keep the good points of the gameplay and improve on them, not the flaws ^^ If you wish to see the "beginning" of my idea, you should take a look at my Steroids mod. Its gameplay is still very close to Tribes:V, while being faster. It s very raw and unfinished, but a few of the ideas are already there. Do you have a precisely defined gameplay for your idea at the moment ? I really have to put ideas on paper and on a webby...    Report

12-15-2006, 1:22 PM rapher Joined on 03-31-2006 Posts 159 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine No, nothing at the moment is really defined at all. There are a number of ideas floating around with a number of possibilties, each with their benefits and drawbacks. I'd imagine I'll get a better idea of the direction I'd like to take over the next few months. Once I get my hands on some of these new technologies, I'm sure I'll be better informed to make an appropriate decision regarding pushing a project further. Right now, I'm really just throwing ideas around. I'm personally not ready for putting things on paper and committing just yet. -rapher    Report

12-15-2006, 8:19 PM Zhou Joined on 04-04-2006 Posts 58 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine There have already been rumblings about a tribes mod on the et:qw forums, and even one of the devs said he would create a t1/t2 style feel for the (already extant) jetpacking and skiing at release. The majority of the community and the developers have played previous tribes games, although they are much more of a t1/t2 crowd. I think that either ue3 or et:qw engines would be a strong choice tbh, but personally I would go et:qw as the (unbelievably friendly) devs have already stated their interest in a tribes mod.    Report

12-19-2006, 3:23 AM StanRex Joined on 04-04-2006 Posts 14 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine Just wanted to point out that I had opened a blog here : http://vengeance-europe.com/blog/ and had started putting some of my ideas on it. There isn't a whole lot of details yet, but it's a start. If you wanna take a look at it, please be my guest ^^    Report

02-14-2007, 7:12 AM Dr.Oopy Joined on 02-14-2007 Posts 1 Re: Tribes Mod based on UT3 Engine This is a very exciting prospect and I'm so glad there are signs of this starting :) I would however like to make a suggestion: Speaking from experience, it's at this precise moment that you need to find a central hub to operate from.Start pulling a team and ideas together. Not only will this avoid individuals from potentially wasting their valuable time, but will also provide a solid foundation to build the project upon. This is no small project, it will require careful resource management. From my quick research there's some extremely talented people within the community with a lot of ideas. It would be very wise to not let this fragment :) Sorry to point out the obvious. I'm excited by the prospect and don't want to see it fall apart :) Dr.O    Report

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